meeting2

=Meeting 24 Sept 2007=

Agenda
Wesley will not be able to attend this meeting because of another committment. During the meeting, please review, edit, and provide feedback on the following: I (Wesley) contacted the person I know with Texas Tech ISD but did not hear back from them. We did draft an application to the Texas Education Agency to become an official CPE Provider, but the fax to TEA did not go through so to date (24 Sept) this has not been submitted. We can proceed with the self-serve PD database proposal whether or not we receive formal CPE provider status. (Obviously it will be better for educators whose districts recognize CPE provider status if we get that status.)
 * 1) Progress on actions from Meeting 1
 * 2) PD Rubric
 * 3) Self-Serve PD Database

Progress on actions
K12 online conference has applied for CPD provider accreditation. This should take a couple of weeks. USA only. Brian: I spoke with our Staff Development department, we can't issue credit per se, however if K12 submits the paperwork to be issued a CPE Provider # and if we determine the number of hours for each session (I think we agreed on 2) school districts in Texas, and in the U.S. presumably should recognize K12 as a legitimate source of professional dev. and accept the credit. Some districts may be using credit units, but should have a system in place to convert. I have sent the required [|paperwork] to be issued a provider # to Wes. On the Certificate of Completion we issue, we need to be sure to include the CPE Provider # and Number of CPE hours (2).
 * 1. Brian to find out if El Paso accredits non-El Paso teachers**

5. Adapt practice from Plymouth uni: Jim? -- Jim needs a contact at Plymouth. Would that be Jeff Utecht? 6. Rubric for application in practice: Terry to start? -- see link above 7. Registration/survey in UCASS: Brian and Miguel? Wes to investigate/discuss idea of registration thru K12: email addresses** Brian: Perhaps instead of calling it "Registration", we should call it something along the lines of "Tell Us About Yourself". **-- not discussed**
 * 2. Wes to contact Texas Tech** -- done, but see Wes's note above
 * 3. Miguel: same as #1 for San Antonio** -- don't know if Miguel has done this: Terry to email him to ask
 * 4. Rubric for self-reflection: Terry to start -- done: see Link

9. Submission form/Registration form, with choices of media** -- could take Qs from rubric and incorporate into questionnaire
 * 8. Find out numbers seeking credit last year: Wes - RESPONSE: Jeff U confirmed today what Jim said yesterday, 5 participated last year

PD Rubric
This was liked. Can be incorporated into Terry's rubric.

Self-serve PD database
Idea and suggested fields liked, but concern expressed over time-scale. Need to plan it properly, ie specifications, construction, testing. If something goes wrong, could be reputation-damaging.

Issues arising

 * 1) See notes inside numbered items above
 * 2) Liked idea of K12 Ning. One of the K12 four needs to start it, otherwise someone else will have control. Suggest sooner rather than later. Also, why not start a Yahoo Group? **[Comment from Wesley 10/1/07: We are likely going to start a Ning, Darren has done this. We can discuss issues. Probably not a Yahoo Group, we don't want to fragment formally encouraged conversation spaces for the conference too much, we know there will be lots of organic discussions going on, best if tools used permit tagging tho (we will have tags for each session too) so presenters and others can track with feeds. Yahoo groups doesn't really allow for that (technorati tag tracking) like you can with Ning and blogs. We can discuss more during our meeting 10/2.]**
 * 3) What can be achieved by start of conference:
 * Brian's registration survey: needs to be extended and formatted. Brian to complete
 * CPD Rubric: Terry to incorporate suggestions from Derek plus ideas from Wes's rubric
 * Certification: this poses problems as it stands. If people register via Brian's survey, completion of survey could lead to certificate of **participation** that delegate could print out. This would have to have a disclaimer stating that K12Online organisers don't guarantee anything apart from registration. For a more meaningful certificate, need to do more. The discussion (see transcript) indicates that this is quite a minefield. I suggest that one thing that could be done is to undertake a pilot scheme by allowing no more than 10 people (first come, first served) to take part. That would involve registering, submitting answers to the rubric, and being certificated (or not) by the K12 CPD committee, and giving feedback, all within a limited timescale. Ultimately however, as James pointed out, there is a limit to what can be offered free of charge.

Actions for next meeting

 * 1) Brian to complete survey
 * 2) Terry to complete rubric
 * 3) Wes (if agrees) to let Jim know contact for Plymouth (or confirm that it is Jeff) **[Wesley emailed Jeff 10/1 and requested he send that info to both Terry and I.]**
 * 4) James: to contact Plymouth (see actions from Meetring 1)
 * 5) Wes (if agrees) to discuss with other 3 K12 organisers the creation of a Ning community and a Yahoo Group **[Wesley: We have discussed Ning and it looks like it is a go, but no formal Yahoo group, see comments above.]**
 * 6) Wes to respond to suggestions about certification (above) and other issues **[Comments from Wesley: I think we need to find a system which provides for transparency in the submission by participants and is as disintermediated as possible, meaning that outside intervention in the process is needed as little as possible. We need quality assurance but on a pass/fail level. If teachers are in districts which don't accept CPE from San Antonio ISD then they have the evidence of their learning to present for credit, and their local district or school can grant credit. We need to think about scalability here, potentially we could (and likely will) have thousands of submissions for credit in this system. This needs to be scalable.]**
 * 7) All: to double-check these notes (and correct if necessary) if at the meeting
 * 8) All: to look at rubric, [|survey] and [|certification], and comment

Next meeting
Tuesday 2nd October, 8pm Eurpoean (London) time, ie GMT + 1

Transcript of meeting
Derek: have you checked out the new yahoo teachers interface?

James Lerman: not in about 10 days, is there something new?

Moderator: hi

Brian Grenier: hello all

James Lerman: how do I get my audio working?

Derek: hello brian

James Lerman: hi brian

Moderator: I am not sure if the audio is working

Brian Grenier: james, you have the mic...bu i'm having a hard time hearing you

Moderator: I can't hear anything

Derek: i can hear terry and brian

James Lerman: yes I can hear, but apparently you can't hear me

Brian Grenier: great picture though james

James Lerman: ok

Derek: no my mic isn't cooperating

Moderator: Derek, doi u have a mic?

Moderator: ok

Moderator: let me say a couple of things

Moderator: James, I can hear noise, but not your voice

Brian Grenier: same here...noise, but no voice

James Lerman: don't know what's wrong with my mic, you all can see my headset right?

Brian Grenier: yes

Derek: i think that's a good idea, perhaps they could use a social bookmarking tool to share the resources.

Moderator: great idea. u mean for the other resources?

Derek: @terry: yes.

Moderator: I agree

Derek: @brian: exactly. i think the sharing of resources

Derek: would be optional for the higher ed set

Derek: or a low tech option, might be yahoo! groups, which teachers already know how to use

James Lerman: i haven't heard anything

Brian Grenier: http://surveys.episd.org//survey.php?sid=36

James Lerman: how would this be maintained, accessed, searched?

Moderator: makes sense

Moderator: I think James' Qs are riught tho

Brian Grenier: james, you have the mic

Moderator: I am trying to silence James!

Derek: the database is a good idea, but perhaps something that should be tabled for the next conference

Derek: just the debugging alone

Derek: will be over a week

James Lerman: I haven't been anyone to contact, so I haven't done anything yet

Moderator: I have relinnquished control of mic

Derek: what are the deliverables we need to complete

Moderator: OK, is that because nobody got back to u?

Derek: before the conference

James Lerman: i think we need to continue meeting after the confernece in order to be prepared for next year

Derek: @james: yes, i agree

James Lerman: this hurry up this year has made me quite uneasy

James Lerman: i have concern about the do it yourself credit

James Lerman: also, i think we need to do some research about how districts will feel about that

James Lerman: is Plymouth credit ok, has anyone checked with them?

Derek: i'm sure there will be tons of questions from the teachers, we need to have some central place to capture and follow-up w/them

Moderator: Not sure James. will ask Wes

James Lerman: do we need a written option for response?

James Lerman: checking the archive

Moderator: what do u mean, James?

James Lerman: maintained, accessed, searched?

Moderator: oic

Moderator: Have we lost the others?

James Lerman: is that your ?

James Lerman: i've lost my audio

Moderator: I have lost visuals

Moderator: and audio

Brian Grenier: looks like you lost your video too, james

James Lerman: i shut off my video

Brian Grenier: oh

James Lerman: do you miss me that much? ;I can turn it back on

Moderator: let's think about what we need to do by start of conference

James Lerman: good idea

Moderator: lol @ James. yes

Brian Grenier: this is a link to a "sample" certificate we may want to consder issuing

Brian Grenier: http://k12onlinecpd.wikispaces.com/space/showimage/K12Certificate.pdf

James Lerman: how did you arrive at 2 hours?

James Lerman: it's very pretty

Moderator: ok, that looks good.

Moderator: we spke last time about raising the barrioer to entry: what if 30,000 people apply for a certificaqte?

Brian Grenier: i think we discussed that last time and came to a loose concensus

James Lerman: it needs some sort of contact information for us in case a school district has a question

Brian Grenier: good point James

Moderator: I agree

Brian Grenier: i'll include Terry's home phone #

Moderator: am worried tho that someone could be in for a lot of work if a lot of people apply. Cheers Brian!

Derek: i think a lot of people will *say* they want the credit

Brian Grenier: i think that's why Wes was leaning towards the self-serve method, where it would be automatically generated

Derek: but the actual follow up will be small

James Lerman: in the long run, i think there is no getting around the fact that issuing credit is going to take a lot of time and effort. One "barrier to entry" is that we ought to, imho, charge some money for credit to make people a bit more serious and also halep defray the expense of people's time and effort

Derek: which is why i think brian is correct

Moderator: I think the certificate should be contingent upon registration within a certain time frame, as Brian suggested earlier, and completing all of the rubric?

Brian Grenier: i'm thinking that the reflection piece will cut the numbers a bit

Derek: yes brian it will

Moderator: I agree

Moderator: so how about this:

James Lerman: i think there may be problems with the self serve method, as attractive as it may be from out end logistically and politically

Moderator: could we have two certificates:

James Lerman: that might not be a bad idea

Derek: certificate of participation

James Lerman: a certificate of participation and a certificate of completion

Derek: certificate of ......yep james you got it

James Lerman: participation doesn't caqrry any credit

Derek: exactly

Moderator: yes, that's what I was trying to type

James Lerman: completion, with fulfillment of the rubric requirements, can carry credit

Brian Grenier: not sure why we'd need to issue a cert of particiation

Brian Grenier: only completion

James Lerman: Just for those people who want it

Derek: we can put the cert of participation online and they can download it and write their name in

Moderator: and there would have to be a disclaimer to the effect that K12 organisers don't guarantee full attendance etc

James Lerman: the participation certificate can be completely self serve and autiomatic

Brian Grenier: good idea derek

Derek: honor system

Moderator: yes

Moderator: I think the accrediation certificate needs to be thought thru for next year, or do u think I am being defeatist

James Lerman: not defeatist at all...this is really a very big deal

Moderator: how about this as an interim compromise:

Derek: how about we identify x number of sessions that are avail for accrediation

Derek: instead of all sessions

James Lerman: my experience is that districts are very conservative about accepting credit because ultimately it costs the taxpayers money for salary increases

Derek: to test the waters, sort of a beta test for certification

Moderator: we tell school districts that they can use our rubric and our certificate should they wish to certificate their teachers

Moderator: Derek, not sure: what would make one session more credit-worthy than another?

James Lerman: aha, the essential question

James Lerman: posed another way, are all sessions worthy of credit?

Moderator: well, I would feel peeved if my one wasn't deemed worthy

James Lerman: if so, what have we said to presenters about what they should do to make their presos credit-worthy?

Moderator: (I don't have a session actually, but am using that as an example)

James Lerman: I understand completely

Moderator: exactly James

Brian Grenier: i think they're all worthy, not sure what only selecting certain courses will accomplish other than keep the numbers down

James Lerman: If we're going into the credit business, then presenters need to know that and prepare accordingly

Moderator: what do u think of my suggestion of givinbg the certificate and rubric to school districts? altho I can see issues with that

Brian Grenier: james, is continuing professional education tied to salary where you're at?

Derek: i agree with james and if its like other conferences, not all preso's are created equal

James Lerman: that's why everybody can't teach at a university

Derek: cpe is tied to salary here in ca

Moderator: we need a few action points for next meeting

James Lerman: all across the usa continuing ed is tied to salary advancement. That's why most teachers take continuing ed courses

Brian Grenier: we're not talking college grad credit...right? just professional development

Moderator: 1. I will type up gist of this meeting and circulate for approval re accuracy

Derek: yep

James Lerman: right

Brian Grenier: man...i need to work in another district

James Lerman: in a school district, they can count for the same thing if the district accepts it

Moderator: 2. James, can u chase up the Plymouth stuff?

James Lerman: I need a contact there and a contact from us

Brian Grenier: hmmm...that does throw a wrench into things.

Moderator: Isn't Jeff U. the contact there?

James Lerman: I need to know what the deal was last year and what's been done for this year. I fear that nothing has been done. If that's the case, we're in deep do do

Moderator: what does Brian?

Moderator: re certificate: I have another compromise

Brian Grenier: CPE tied to salary....and James' point about districts being leary of accepting from anyone

Moderator: ok

Moderator: how about this:

James Lerman: I think our best best right now is to go with a self generated certificate of participation

James Lerman: for no credit

Derek: i know that for our yahoo teacher workshops certification we had to jump through lots o'hoops and take calls from school districts

Moderator: announce that, as a pilot, we will look at accrediting participation for 20 people, first come first served, on comdition that the people chosen give feedback on the process

Derek: about what the content of the course was

James Lerman: yes derek, that's right. this is a big deal giving out credit

Derek: very big

Derek: i can work with st. mary's college again, but they

Derek: wont' be able to turn it around in 3 weeks

Derek: they do national CEU's

Moderator: Brian, could u beef up survey as an action point?

Derek: one survey point could be "are you interested in CEU"

Derek: also, with CEU's there is a fee

Derek: st. mary's charges $25 per credit hour

James Lerman: again, we're talking about apples and oranges. grad credit (not ceu's) and inservice credit

Brian Grenier: sure...looking for input on wording the reflection piece http://k12onlinecpd.wikispaces.com/UCCASS+Survey

Moderator: I have had a stab:

Moderator: Qs 6 and 7 http://k12onlinecpd.wikispaces.com/Rubric

James Lerman: the arrangement with Plymouth is for grad credit and if that's in place, then its great. What we've been taling about is inservice credit (granted by districts themselves). CEU's are of little value because they are not generally accepted in k-12 3d

James Lerman: k-12 ed

Moderator: folks, I have to go. I will draw up suggestions for action points. klet's fix up another meeting

James Lerman: Thursday same time?

Brian Grenier: sounds good terry...i'll be flyfishing for the next week though

Derek: ooh lucky brian

James Lerman: can anyone get me contact info for Plymouth

Moderator: lol

Derek: i'd take the flyfishing over a meeting any day!

Moderator: how about 2nd Oct, which is a week tomorrow, same time?

Moderator: me too Derek

Derek: works for me

James Lerman: that would give us only a couple of days before the conf

Moderator: I am away from Thgurs to Mon

Brian Grenier: back next monday...or i can read the notes from the meeting if its this week...regardless i will beef up the survey and post a link to it on the wiki for feedback

Brian Grenier: i'm good for the 2nd

Moderator: well, we can stiull post stuff on the wiki and email between times. I will have wiki updated by tomorrow morning

James Lerman: i guess the 2nd it will be

James Lerman: same time?

Moderator: ok, well let's make it 2nd for now. are u ok with that James?

James Lerman: yes

Moderator: yes, same time

Moderator: OK, well thanks foolks, I think we are making good prgres

Moderator: progress*

Derek: thanks terry

James Lerman: on the survey, it might be good to ask people if they are interested in (check all the apply) grad credit, CEU's, inservice credit

Brian Grenier: we'll talk to you guys next week...until then Tight Lines!

Moderator: cu next week, enjoy your vacation Brian

James Lerman: wow!

Derek: good idea james

Moderator: bye!

James Lerman: bye yall

Brian Grenier: finally got your video terry

Moderator: I didn't realise it had been on preview all this time! sorry

Moderator: lol

James Lerman: hi terry

Moderator: bye

Brian Grenier: bye

Moderator: hi

Moderator: lol

Moderator: bye